Take 2

After my first thread on these forums (removed, luckily), which was a prime example of self-indulgence and mental exhibitionism I'll try yet again to put my thoughts on err... paper and to see if other people can make something sensible out of it.
I'm really getting tired of this BS and very, very angry.
What's basicly pissing me of are two things:

-Ever since my friend died (which is a year ago in december, for crying out loud!) my mind is been flooded with thoughts and memories of my err... homeless period 6 years ago. In between that year of troubles and last year I managed perfectly well to function and supress everything that happened. Actually, I even managed to forget everything. Like something you know but don't think about. And all of a sudden everything is back and overwhelming me and fucking changing who I am. I think I should be over it after 6 fucking years. There are way too much things about that period that annoy me about myself and society to remember and I wish I could just forget.
I wonder what the hell I'm doing wrong here.

-The above would be fine (a bit of insanity can't harm I guess) but what is the most disturbing is that I refuse to function. I can't do anything. For example, I promised a homeless guide for these forums. Normally that wouldn't be a problem since it's simply copy-pasting and translating. But I can hardly bring myself to do a page a week. I also can't sleep, no in my stupidity I refuse to because I have dreams/memories/whatever. So I'm a zombie. I have no willpower and thus do really stupid things.
I'm back in school (3th time I double a year) but can't do anything but fall asleep in class and be a general annoyance. So I didn't go for the past week. Which shows yet again a lack of willpower.

So all in all I can't cope normal life and I'm whiney and bitchy about shit that happend YEARS ago.

So. Am I insane (the bad insane) and am I too self-centered?
BTW, I have mood swings so my next reply will probably be different from tone than here. :D
:rolleyes:
:(

Boxie, it sounds like you are just dealing with some extremely traumatic events that have occured in your life. Being homeless is traumatic, losing a close friend is extremely traumatic. Your descriptions of suppressing and just not remembering these things are why you may be flooded with them now.

Now obviously I'm no shrink and anything I offer here is unqualified and based on my own experiences but I reckon by not dealing with traumatic issues and suppressing them they are always going to resurface and haunt us.

The hard part is how to deal with them. Talking about it definately helps, thinking about can be both negative and positive. You've gotta find something that works for you. Perhaps talking to a close friend, or on the other end of the scale talking to someone who doesn't know you like a counsellor. Like I said you have to find what works for you and give it time.

Hang in there and good luck with working through this, you'll get there, you've just got to allow yourself to process the issues not hide from them. Don't worry I know that's are lot easier said than done but you've got to try.

When I think about things rationally (which is really hard, I'm kinda becoming more and more primitive, I'm suprised I still have my opposable thumbs) I know you're perfectly right.
Hiding something like that, not a whole series of events like that, isn't healthy. And of course sooner or later it would have to come back up.
But somehow I hoped I would resilient enough (since I was about 13 when all the shit happened, tho age in years doesn't really apply to situations like that) to just step over it.

And dealing with them... I can hardly think straight. Literally. I can't think. When I let my mind drift I sooner or later his a memory. Like they're cattered all over my brain. :eek: Creepy. And I know I'm suffering from sleep deprivation. :D And sound like that. :D

Talking to someone... Pfft.
Well, the person I normally talked to about this... Died. It's almost funny. I said almost.
I don't like councelors, doctors, whatever,... People who are paid to listen. Besides, I'd have this huge gap to cross to talk to people who never missed a meal in their lives. No, I haven't yet met one who did. Yes, this is very arrogant of me to disregard good intentions of people.
I've tried to talk to people. I have this RL school friend whom I "accidentally" told some shit on MSN when I was drunk. Strangely enough he believed and understood me. But I don't want to bother him with things that are miles away from him.
Ah yes. Lately I'm telling weird stuff to people and don't remember it. :D Random people like my 16-year old class mates. Should be funny when I go even more insane.

I'm so sure I would be able to deal with all of it if I only could think. You know how annoying it is if you can't think? This reply is a work of art for me. I type it almost on instinct, using stuff I know to be true as everything else is uncertain.

Luckily I don't stop to see the humor in things. :D

Thanks for taking the risk and sharing your post here. I have to go with Punter and qualify everything I say with 'I'm not a shrink = psychologist / psychiatrist.... but I am a Social Worker so I know a little about mental health but not really enough to really be of good help to you.

I think the thing you need to decide for yourself firstly or maybe learn is about people who have mental health problems. You may already know, I'm not sure.

My suggestion is to decide what group you belong to:
1. The people who believe they can survive it by sheer strength of will, or
2. The people who believe it's not about being strong or weak, but that it's an illness people can get help for (the help may work or not work, often it does).

If you are in group 2, the only thing next is deciding who you would get help from and when is the right time. Probably for you if I'm guessing, if you could find someone who would be right for you to talk with about how you are going would be the most important thing, probably then, you would be ready to talk if you felt comfortable.

I'm doing a lot of guessing so far. I don't even know so sorry if I'm getting it wrong.

If I am getting it right, than for you it would be finding the right person to talk to. If you want to do that (if now is the right time) I have some good advice that I think may help:

1. If you are going to spill everything and tell all to someone who may be able to help... make sure they have a professional qualification that ensures confidentiality. That way, only they know... that's the only risk you take because they can't tell anyone.

2. You can leave parts out, you don't need to tell them everything (decide as you go depending on what you think of them / how they treat you).

3. They don't need to understand what you experienced, they only need to understand what effect it had on you. [This is the most important point, they don't and won't understand homelessness or anything else you experience because even if they experienced it themself, it would not be the same way you experienced it.] It's how your experience of the things you have survived have effected you personally and what is going on in your life that will really enable them to help you.

4. Often there is no cause and effect, but sometimes there is. It may not be your past experience that is the issue, maybe it's the 'content' you have to work with. e.g. if someone suffers depression, it isn't because sad things happen in their life, it's just that depression is depression... anyone can have it, it's just an illness (like getting sick with the flu... but much worse obviously). Whatever 'content' or sad stuff they have to work with at the time is what they think they are depressed about. But real depression is different, for example. Doesn't matter what 'content' someone has to work with or if they have any... they can still suffer depression.

Depression is just one example, but a good one.

So really, what you are experiencing is probably not going to be helped by just talking with someone, maybe it will help a little, but going to talk with someone who can try and work out what mental illness you have, or even if you have one.... that's the thing you need to do (it's a long shot, but that's my best guess). Sorry, I really don't know a lot about this. But I hope what little I do know can help you choose what is best for you, and when.

One thing is for sure, you aren't 'crazy' or inadequate. You just need to solve the puzzle and probably, you can't solve the puzzle by yourself (and I don't know enough to help you do it).

As difficult as it is, I think you are stuck more with taking the leap and talking to someone who really knows this stuff... and staying put and waiting till you are ready.

How did I go, given so much I don't know?

That's some awesome shit you guys wrote. Could be obvious but for me it's a real help.
And like I said. I have a real dislike (perhaps even hate) of shrinks, cops, official people, doctors, suits,... So I'd rather have a "non-qualified" person give me advice. I'll take the risk.

I'll take your post on step by step so the overall picture may be confusing but this way it's easier for me.

I've met my share of mentally ill people. And I must say I like many of them more than normal people. Of course I understand that mental illness can be a horrible thing to carry with you. I also realize that they are deseases like physical ones, perhaps with the difference that medecin for physical illenesses is a lot more advanced. But I guess I'm a bit of a xenophile or something.


Now the groups.
Group one. Urghlglll! Sometimes it's like I do have the strength of will to get over it. But some days I dissapoint myself in doing exactly the things that messed me up that year. Perhaps in a more responsible and less hysterical way. But the damage to my err... self-esteem is still the same. But I used to have strength of will. Maybe even a good deal of it. Tho it's a bit more like setting the mind on blank-mode and doing what you should do. Used to be good at that.

Group two.
Talking about things is very hard. When I posted my previus rant I literally had a massive head ache, no matter how "liberating" it was. Sure, hysteria. But still. I often can't believe all of that really happened, even when I see who I am and what I can and can't do. I'm very much a product of my experiences. But I managed to ignore all of that for a long time.
So I'm not comfortable with talking. It's literally hard to do so.

And in the name of the big giant potatoe... It's amazing you're actually replying to this. With all my weird contradictions 'n stuff. So never be sorry.

Here we go:
1) Confidentiality doesn't keep someone from having shit in their head.

2) Even if I leave parts out. How the hell do you bring things up? I've had opportunities to talk to "qualified" people in the past, directly after everything that happened. But I never had an idea on how to bring that up. Or on how to cross that gap.

3) I feel they do need to understand... No. I dunno. My friend who died, tho having been trough a lot of shit herself (some things of which I'm so happy I didn't went trough myself) never was in a similar situation I was. But somehow she was so empathic. Almost superhuman. I guess I'd want someone to be able to replace that. I think.

4)This is something that is hard for me to explain. I think; but am not sure, that my experiences and (extremely vivid) memories are of direct significance. My mood changes according to what I remember. I can feel like shit for a week when I remember some of the really bad things I did to people.
So all in all I don't think it's one single condition. But my reaction to this flood of memories and "new" experiences. Somehow I have to accept and incorporate them into myself. It's strange how I never had the time to deal with it when it happened. Was a very, very intense time. Explains perhaps how I remember everything so clearly. Was VERY intense.


I guess I can summarize I have to talk to someone. Face to face. Read his/her reactions, disbelief and lack of understanding.
I've always been able to rely on my rational thinking and my detachment from myself to deal with things. But apparently I've met my match. But somehow I'm sure I can face everything that happened if only I knew how to have the right perspective. I think I have a lot of questions about who I am, was and what I did. Whether it was good or bad. Justified or unjustified. Fair or unfair. I have no idea what's stopping me from judging it myself.

I do know that I really never (NEVER) needed help, according to myself. And managed. So I don't know why I should risk my self-esteem for an uncertain gamble. But isn't this very thread a cry for help? Altho I think it's slightly different from talking to someone face to face in my own language.




BTW, you said some awesome things that made me think of new things. Any kind of help like this is an abundance and I can only be very gratefull.



PS: I just thought of this. Perhaps I'm not going insane but I'm becoming normal. Maybe those years of denial were a crazy situation.

I've read your reply to my reply several times and held off responding, mainly because I don't know what else to say over and above what I've already said. I'll keep reading your post till I find something I can offer that may be of use.

For now though, if you think it is helpful for you, feel free to post whatever you want in this thread to 'get it on paper' or release it, if you think that would help. I don't know that it will, or if it will be enough, but it may be a starting point where anonymously you can prep what you want to say to someone who is possibly able to help when you are ready.

As for people in authority... I get it, the person who is right to talk with will probably be someone you can make your servant. Someone who works for you. So maybe paying someone with professional qualifications that guarantee confidentiality would put you in a position of power that is safe enough for you to lay it out on the table and see what they can offer. How does that sound?

In terms of what's happened to you and what you have done to other people... I bet you $1 million I've heard something similar before 100 times. You aren't one or the other, the victim perpetrator cycle is just a reality of life. It doesn't matter which one you think you are now, it only matters what you do next and with the rest of your life. Anyone can be a victim. Anyone can be a perpetrator. The only hard thing about it is getting peace in your soul and choosing to make a life for yourself beyond your past. If your willing to take the risks needed to carve out a life for yourself... whatever the past, your future will be fine... so long as you do the work needed, when you are ready.

At some point this will involve trusting the right person and pushing yourself beyond what you are currently comfortable with.

I know you will keep yourself safe through any process, by deciding as it goes where to take it and how much to reveal. This safeguard will be all you need.

For now though, I'd like to suggest you break it into stages:
Stage one: go see someone, tell them only enough (about how it has effected you / how you are traveling now) to sort out some support for depression or another situation.
Stage two: use stage one to audition the right person to go all the way with and lay the rest of what you have on the table.

As above = my guess is only my guess, nothing more or anything you should bank on. Use your own instincts and experience to decide what is best for you and when. Maintain control and power, invite the right people in to play a specific role when it's the right time.

At some point though, you are going to have to short list and pick someone to trust, someone who knows this stuff..... go hunt them down, through auditions if you are ready.

You need to talk to someone, anyone.but if you can't.., purge and purge alone, eventually it will occur to you that it helps to vomit in a mirror, Metephorically speaking.
Get yourself assesed, know what it is that is fucking with you and why. Give yourself a map and read it well. Begin to understand who you are and why. Swallow hard the findings and accept them, for this will be your journey to recovery.
What the fawk! I can look a man in the face and hate him well, but it isn't the man that concerns me, it's his knowledge that I wish to steal and steal I will. Fuck society, it's there I do not fit nor do I care too, but it's from there I gather knowledge So whats the fukkin problem, can't differentiate?
He said this to me with loving eyes, eyes that can't recognize love but will sieze an opportunity when he sees one.. he knew me well.
Me and Lucy Werewolf my dog.

BB - first off, welcome, you've come to a safe and sane corner of the internet.

secondly = let me echo others, I speak from my own experiences, but I am NOT a licensed professional, so please keep that in mind when reading my comments!

Now:

What you have described sounds to me like Post-Traumatic Stress Disorder. Post-Traumatic Stress is PERFECTLY NORMAL. If it goes on for more than a couple of months after the actual trauma, if it rears its ugly head years later, or if you start avoiding things that will cause "re-experience episodes" [like sleep] -- that is when it becomes "disordered".

You are having bad reactions to bad experiences -- that means you are SANE. If you DIDN'T have a bad reaction to a bad experience, then I would wonder if you were insane or just that incredibly religious.

I don't have any idea what you experienced or did, but I have to agree with others that seeking professional help puts YOU in control of where it "goes", how fast and how far. It also gives you the freedom to have normal give-and-take relationships with friends and family, instead of straining your "sounding boards". Friends and family will listen, but if you rehash things with them too many times -- they might not like hanging around very long. A good professional will let you rehash as many times as you need to in order to sort out whatever it is that is plagueing you -- they also have the training to help you dig deeper to really figure out what is underneath it all. Paying someone objective to help you hash things out frees you up to have healthier relationships with friends and family members. What you have described so far -- I can only imagine this must be affecting those relationships.

In my own quest for professional help, I went through three HORRIBLE-FOR-ME shrinks before FINALLY finding one that I "clicked" with, and STILL -- even though I clicked with my current shrink -- it still takes me about 5-15 minutes of any given hour long talk session to get through the superficial "how my week has been" BS and really dig into my issues. I am certain that those first three shrinks were very competent and definitely the right shrinks for plenty of other people, but they weren't right for me.

I go through the Dept of Veterans Affairs for my counseling. Even though I just moved 40 miles and could get talk therapy at the VA clinic only 5 miles from my new apartment -- I still drive the 40 miles every two weeks to see my shrink. I know I "click" with her, and I am admittedly too afraid of finding another bad one to change clinics. If it was farther than 40 miles or more often than every two weeks, yeah, I would have to seriously consider the risk of changing to a different shrink.

The main issues with getting professional help are (A) when you are ready to go that route, (B) if you are willing to "hit and miss" until you find the right shrink for you, and (C) if you are willing to stick it out.

If you aren't ready yet, the best shrink in the world won't be able to do much more than keep you even and steady while waiting for you to arrive at a place where you are ready. You seem to be in a safe place already, realizing that what's going on is causing you problems and wanting to get better, but if you ever feel like you aren't safe -- any shrink worth their license can help you get safe and stay safe in the meantime until you do arrive at a ready place.

Contrary to all the latest greatest wonder drug hype -- most people in the real world have to try a few different psych meds before finding the ONE that works the right way for them. Shrinks are just like meds -- shrinks that "don't fit" can actually be worse than no shrink at all. You have to prepare yourself for the chance that you might get a bad shrink or few before you find the right one for you. Just try not to throw the shields up TOO high when meeting a new shrink, or you'll never click with ANY of them. DO keep an open mind, just not so open that your brains fall out.

As to psych meds -- I know you didn't mention them, but I think it's important to address the issue: they aren't always a "crutch". I prefer to look at them like a bridge. I've been on them a few times myself in the past. Sometimes, when the past is overriding and interfering with every aspect of your present, you need a bridge so that you can stay level as you cross over ugly valleys. The valleys are still there, and you can look down on them from above, but the bridge will hold you up so you don't have to actually re-experience all of the gory emotions down in that valley. One suggestion I will make about psych meds -- never go onto a regimine of psych meds if you are not simultaneously in talk therapy.

One thing is certain: no matter how bad the dreams might get, sleep deprivation will make the whole mess worse and can actually make the bad dreams themselves much worse, maybe you start having "waking" dreams where you can't tell what's awake "reality" and what's dream.

Of course a good professional will also be able to diagnose whether or not you have any other issues going on that they may be able to help you deal with, besides your problems with this seemingly disordered Post-Traumatic Stress. There could easily be something else deeper at the root that is contributing to your difficulty coping with your trauma -- something that us lay folks can't see.

Here's hoping that when you are ready -- you won't have to "audition" too many shrinks. One thing that might help you audition shrinks is if you write down some of the points on this thread that really make sense to you -- and discuss those points when you meet a new shrink. Arriving armed with a few things to discuss that don't really dig into your "stuff" will give you a way to feel out whether or not the shrink is someone you feel comfortable talking to :)

Was planning not to reply for a while or at all, at the risk of being very impolite... But I guess I'm not that rude. If you people take the effort to type out your way of thinking then I should do the same.


Although I probably won't act accordingly I think your posts contained a lot of great advice and ideas.

I tried typing out a whole lot as good as I could and then posted it… And my reaction on that showed me that I don’t have the clarity of mind to see individual events in perspective and relate them to who I am now.
I even had it removed since I couldn't stand it being there.

What I have been doing lately is just ignoring.

I’ve used the same harsh standards on myself that I used to judge others with. Which make me conclude that I’m actually a really fucking lucky moron and that I shouldn’t whine about stuff that happened 6 years ago.6 YEARS!

Yes, it’s roaming in my head. It doesn’t really make me trust myself too much. I’ve been doing some weird stuff. Things like telling people crap (not really telling things about my past but just stuff that’s… Not normal) that they shouldn’t hear and later on I can’t remember a thing. My short term memory is horrible.

I’m still having a lot of memories but they’re not as overwhelming as they used to be. When I feel bad about something I dreamt about or remembered I usually just ignore that. Ignoring works to keep on functioning. I don’t even consciously undergo memories.

Dominic. Of course the victim perpetrator cycle is normal… But I’ve did some serious thinking and I honestly KNOW that I’m not really a nice person to begin with. For starters I have the tendency to be all about me, myself and I. Then I usually abandon people when THEY have shit. And to finish: All my “problems” are my own fault. I’ve also done things that I consider to be “avoidable”.

So what right have I to take “help” when I don’t need it or can avoid needing it when I myself don’t help others?

And paying someone…

1) I don’t have the financial means.
2) Someone with real problems might need that time more.
3) I went by for years and now I can’t? BS.
4) I don't like those people. :D


I don’t think I’m mentally ill anymore. I think I’m actually having a wellness disease. Too spoiled and then bored. Sure, I have problems now. But overall I’m in no position to complain. And still I am.


So thank you very much for your great intentions and all your effort but it’s a bit of a waste.

I’m a 19-year old moron who had problems 6 YEARS ago and probably subconsciously thinks those days were a lot more interesting.
:rolleyes:

If you people take the effort to type out your way of thinking then I should do the same.

Hehheh, now I have to rib ya -- returning our spent time in kind -- you're not nearly as bad of a person as you say you are :cool:

It sounds like you are desensitizing yourself very successfully if you aren't avoiding sleep any more -- dealing with your PTS in a way that isn't disordered. Kudos to you! Sleep always makes the world look different :)

Err... Well I have found an... equilibrium (sorry for the spelling) with need for sleep and dreams. 3 hours a night and a few mini-naps a day (such as 50 minute naps in class) are actually helping to keep day-dreaming under control. :)

BTW, it's not because someone is polite that he's a good person. ;)

OK! OK! So you're a very well-mannered horrible person ;)

LOL!

They exist!

Hitler was well-mannered.

Sorry for the double post.

Just wanted to say you're all awesome people. A rare breedin the world and especially on the net.

But how much as I'd like to (some really nice discussions here) I can't come by anymore. :)

Again, you people really helped me.

Either way I'll take your advice or succeed in doing what I do now, trying to block some stuff.

Last attempt to get the hell over myself. :D About time. :)

Hopefuly cyas all when things go better for all of us (and the world in general).

Boxie it's been a pleasure seeing you here on the forum.:) I hope things work out for you and look forward to the day when you drop by giving us an update on what you've been upto. Good luck and stay safe man.:D

ok boxb, i just friend the your post on hear about your friend. sorry by the way.
erm i guess i should try to be open, i dont talk about it much, and dont really want to get into sum deep converstion about it, but, i know the pain of loosing a friend, my best friend jenn died suddleny a year ago, she just didnt wake up. i dont think i will ever get over it. and i think about her alot. its werid people always say, it gets easier with time, it does and doesnt, i mean sure theres the not crying as much, and yes its easer to do things like drink coffe in her fav restrant without getting upset...but i think the longer it has been the more i deeply miss her friendship. sounds silly. i understand how it sucks, i used to talk to her about anything and everything, and when she first died, i couldnt sleep 4 weks, i kept thinking about things, which were in the past. i think thats just what greiving does to people.they seem to go one of 2 ways, either no motovasion or just way to much.i couldnt get out of bed, depressed, my mood swings went mentel, juan(bf) was amazing but he had to put up with alot of tears and shouting matching.

its hard, but sometimes the best thing to do is let go. you cant replace her, i know as i sometimes think "wouldnt be cool to meet another jenn type person" then i get so angry for thinnking it. but there just thoughts, they dont mean anything, deep down i think its just a way of remembering what a good friend you had. concillers talk about all sorts of nonsance in regards to loss, but truth is you have to deal with it by yourself, nomatter how many people are helping.

if you stop by on the forums again, good luck with deeling with everything, be strong, and take care