Posting Guidelines: Faith, Religion, spirituality & ministry (read before posting)

Draft Guidelines:

Structural abuse of power is something many of us are familiar with.

Services that give food, accommodation or other support on the condition that homeless people buy into some faith experience are in my opinion abusing their power.

In providing a space for faith based discussion and sharing of resources we ask that everyone be very careful to respect the faith journey of other community members and let them 'find their own way,' in this regard.

For example:
* being a Catholic and being a Christian is right for me
* this does not lead me to believe that it would be right for you
* or assume that it is my place to tell you how to live your life or what god to believe in / church to join

Forum Moderators may:
* Contact a member and ask that they edit their post (by email or private message)
* Edit a post without consulting the author ...like this... [edited by (moderator's name) - comment from moderator]
* Delete threads or posts
* Ban members from the forum
* Close threads to stop further posting

why should a mod edit what somebody has to say? where is the freedome of speach, even if it does make somebody feel insecure or hurt, there should still be the right to say it.

Being inconsiderate of others feelings is so immature. Yes, diplomacy is helpful, but there are too many people who DON'T know how to be diplomatic. TheMisfit

My deepest apologies to Dominic and all. My heart aches for the homeless and all those in need. God knows.... He guided me for many years before I even knew who He was. The best thing we can do anyone is PRAY!!!
One of the hardest prayers I ever prayed was for my enemies,I didn't want to but I did. On one of the threads, I believe it's by snowangel,Titled;"The Serenity Prayer". I've said that one for 30 years. It's a prayer that covers all things ! God Bless ! Luv Ya's TheMisfit

why should a mod edit what somebody has to say? where is the freedome of speach, even if it does make somebody feel insecure or hurt, there should still be the right to say it.

When Moderators edit posts they delete sections of a post or deactivate links, not re-write what someone says. It shows at the bottom of the post that it has been edited, and sometimes includes a note from the moderator to describe the reason for editing.

If you want freedom of speech, open your window and shout your guts out, but if you want to be a part of a community (like the homeless forums) respect for fellow forum members is a requirement of membership. It's kind of a take it or leave it deal.

The Homeless Forums are a community of people, a caring and supportive community, so things that 'make someone feel insecure or hurt' as you put it are out of place and not welcome.

No disrespect to you, Dominic,

But some of the moderators on here are not fair. Nobody appreciates being deconstructively criticized and verbally abused for contrary positions. One of your moderators is over the top and posts clearly subjective, emotional comments, even going so far as to say things that are not true.

Remember how you were a kid and sometimes you would say something and your sibling would twist it around and say you said something entirely different from what you were actually saying? And no matter how hard you told them what you really meant, they not only persisted in pressing your buttons but found some way to escelate it?

Well, you have a moderator here that does just that, with a heavy, bitter hand accompanied by subjective judgement and mean-spirited comments.

I'm not going to mention the name, because that's not my point. But do keep in mind that people come onto these sites with different opinions and having different opinions does not categorically translate into bigotry.

I've been around these communities long enough to know moderators and site administrators stick together. Moderators have more liberty to be hostile and stinky than visitors to the site. It's the unfortunate and sad reality of public forums and the people who run them.

Its fine you want to give your moderators the freedom to do their work. And they should have the access to edit, delete, reprimand, and do all those things that moderators do. In a wierd kind of way, moderators have too much power.

My first experience with a moderator here was not good. Hopefully, that moderator was just a bad apple among several good ones. If not, I think you really need to screen the works of your moderators better or give them some kind of training.

By the way, I do love this site and I appreciate what you are doing here. People do need to be respected. But moderators should be held to a higher standard than visitors because their job is to "moderate" discussions, not inflame them.

Sorry for the rant. Delete the post if you must or move it.

I welcome feedback about our forum admins. Feel free to email or PM me the specifics. Mods are asked to do a tough job, one behind the scenes most people don't fully appreciate, I support them whole heartedly but not blindly and they welcome even before me feedback or criticism.

The fact that you posted in the rules about evangelizing and abuse of power thread leads me to think I would be more harsh than they in response to your posts.

I'll look into your situation. Feel free to PM or email me.

I read your post that was deleted and was interested in what you have to say. Your posts are well thought out and you are someone who it seems whole heartedly loves Christ and tries to offer of yourself to others and share your love of God with others.

But I would have moderated that post the same way, and been upset about it as well. The moderator showed enormous restraint, patience and forgiveness in not banning you. If they offloaded on you it was called for. The moderator in question is older and wiser than I am, and I'm reminded often how lucky we are that they volunteer here. I would have banned you and done my best to kick you down the stairs on the way out.

This is why: what you said was hurtful to people we care about. For clarification, this is not a public forum, it's a community. The post also broke our 'your gone instantly' kind of rule outlined in this thread about evangelising.

When you interact with people who have different religious beliefs to you, the most useful thing to do firstly is to seek and understand their perspective; value it; then continue the conversation with the utmost respect for it. That conversation would not include anything you know that would be hurtful towards them. We do carry on here and argue and insult each other every now and then, but intentionally personal hurtful stuff is not ok.

After careful consideration of your posts I understand that it was not your intention to be hurtful. When intention is there, back we are at the top of those stairs again, me and the moderation team trying to shove each other out of the way to get the first shot in.

I sincerely look forward to reading more posts from you. Please be considerate and respectful from a place that thinks firstly of other people's perspective and feelings. I know you didn't intend to be hurtful but you were, so that needs some reflection, to understand how you were hurtful. How your comments could hurt someone else deeply. I'm sure you don't want it to happen again and you will get banned if it does.

In terms of training and supervision of moderators, your deleted post was moved to a private space for moderators where it's move is open to peer review and discussion amongst moderators. Moderators here are transparent and accountable for their volunteer work. I welcome feedback (thank you for yours) but often find they are more restrained, patient and respectful than I would be.

(I highlighted the word 'perspective' because I didn't want you to think I meant 'opinion'.)

But I would have moderated that post the same way, and been upset about it as well. The moderator showed enormous restraint, patience and forgiveness in not banning you.

You are understood and the message is recieved. I didn't challenge the deleted post, don't intend to. From a visitors point of view, community etiquette takes about three or four posts to get familiar with. There are huge differences from one community to the next and what they do or do not tollerate since moderators, who do have a difficult job, are real people and the topics are sometimes contentious. Though I'm quite sure more was read into that post than should have been.

Part of the problem with posting in public forums is the people don't know each other on a personal level. So we have to put a lot of our own sentiment into things other people write. Therein lies part of the initial problem. But what can be done about that? People are people, after all.

You had a long post there but I think I got the point. Do it again, get banned.

When you interact with people who have different religious beliefs to you, the most useful thing to do firstly is to seek and understand their perspective; value it; then continue the conversation with the utmost respect for it. That conversation would not include anything you know that would be hurtful towards them. We do carry on here and argue and insult each other every now and then, but intentionally personal hurtful stuff is not ok.

Agreed. But I do think moderators are no exception. Sometimes we drop bombs and we don't realize it. But dropping bombs on bombs creates more fire. I'm surprised moderators don't realize that. When we criticize others and we have the same problems we are criticizing, it comes off as incredibly disingenuous and shallow, especially when they claim the high road afterwards. As I said before, in a funny kind of way, moderators have too much power. They are more free than visitors to offload without concern for reprisal. They can nearly post anything want to, hurtful or otherwise, and get away with it. I'm not excusing my first post. As I said, I hope I learned my lesson. Just giving you and other moderators something to think about. A little caution can go a long ways. If a moderator would PM me after deleting my post and tell me they didn't like it and why, I could have handled that. As it is, I didn't get a PM or an e-mail. So I posted a shorter version thinking that maybe I accidently deleted it.

After careful consideration of your posts I understand that it was not your intention to be hurtful. When intention is there, back we are at the top of those stairs again, me and the moderation team trying to shove each other out of the way to get the first shot in.

I sincerely look forward to reading more posts from you. Please be considerate and respectful from a place that thinks firstly of other people's perspective and feelings. I know you didn't intend to be hurtful but you were, so that needs some reflection, to understand how you were hurtful. How your comments could hurt someone else deeply. I'm sure you don't want it to happen again and you will get banned if it does.

Thanks and again, I understand. Do it again, get banned. I hope I can stop that from happening...:eek:

In terms of training and supervision of moderators, your deleted post was moved to a private space for moderators where it's move is open to peer review and discussion amongst moderators. Moderators here are transparent and accountable for their volunteer work. I welcome feedback (thank you for yours) but often find they are more restrained, patient and respectful than I would be.

(I highlighted the word 'perspective' because I didn't want you to think I meant 'opinion'.)

Hmmm...interresting. I never thought of that. But it is a good idea. Thanks for the insight.

By the way, I know you are busy. I don't expect you to respond to this post. You probably have a lot on your plate as it is. Again, thanks for the constructive feedback. You have my word, I'll try to be a good boy.

Thanks for your reply.

Agreed. But I do think moderators are no exception. Sometimes we drop bombs and we don't realize it. But dropping bombs on bombs creates more fire. I'm surprised moderators don't realize that. When we criticize others and we have the same problems we are criticizing, it comes off as incredibly disingenuous and shallow, especially when they claim the high road afterwards. As I said before, in a funny kind of way, moderators have too much power. They are more free than visitors to offload without concern for reprisal. They can nearly post anything want to, hurtful or otherwise, and get away with it. I'm not excusing my first post. As I said, I hope I learned my lesson. Just giving you and other moderators something to think about. A little caution can go a long ways. If that moderator would have just PM'd me after deleting my post and told me she didn't like it. I could have handled that. As it is, I didn't get a PM or an e-mail. So I posted a shorter version thinking that maybe I accidently deleted it.
Good point. I find myself in that problem from time to time. I've even gone in the next day or whenever I'm on the forums again and moderated myself, deleting threads I started or removing posts I made. I've had to appologise to members on PM every now and then when I've made an ass of myself. In the past, moderators have taken me to task in the mods section if members haven't already.

I encourage moderators to throw chairs in the mods only section, and welcome feedback from eachother. It's the most raw section of the forums because to support the forums right you have to be willing to throw a chair and have others who respect you catch it and throw their best back in the safety of privacy.

That's the work environment I try to foster to try and counter the issue you raised. Also mods are able to mod eachother's posts and I have fired mods in the past (not from this forum). Long story short we really do try to do a good job here but I for one am far from perfect.

Thanks for your reply and I will remember your point for my future moderation and posting.