The dramatic events re Australian Aboriginal welfare.

I am surprised that no one has started a topic on this yet.

How do you feel about the new movements in aboriginal welfare?

It's playing very well overseas.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/6229708.stm

The catholic church is less happy about it
http://abc.net.au/news/stories/2007/06/24/1960095.htm

I find it quite strange that there is a truly incredible pace from first announcement a few days ago to first police on the ground. After 15 years of complete and utter waffle and softly softly. We suddenly have a signifigant logistical movement with a speed and flexability I find slightly surprising.
Either this has been planned quietly for some time, or this is the mother of all knee-jerks.

http://www.smh.com.au/news/national/tsunami-approach-to-abuse/2007/06/23/1182019429525.html

Strange after a similar report left Howard completely unmoved last year.
http://www.smh.com.au/news/national/howard-took-no-interest-last-year-nt/2007/06/22/1182019367427.html

Could it be the new minister?
Perhaps, but a rookie minister could not launch something like this without prior approval from at least cabinet level and knowing Howard the PM's personal stamp, or his own party would lynch him as a risk in an election year.


Ben Bartlett, who leads the primary health care program of the Co-operative Research Centre for Aboriginal Health, said a one-off mandatory health check for Aboriginal children in the Northern Territory would be "an absolute waste of time", if it was not adequately followed up by treatment or specialist referrals and repeated at regular intervals.

http://www.smh.com.au/news/national/medical-checks-could-be-assault/2007/06/22/1182019367433.html

Not everyone seems overjoyed about these plans
http://www.theage.com.au/news/National/Aboriginal-reforms-arouse-distrust/2007/06/22/1182019325305.html


Calling the unprecedented Commonwealth intervention "hasty and ill-conceived'', director of the Central Land Council (CLC) David Ross said the move was a cynical ploy to abolish hard won land rights.

"Under the smokescreen of helping children, the Federal Government is taking the opportunity to impose its ideological agenda in relation to Aboriginal land,'' he said.

"The proposals seem to be a grab-bag of unrelated strategies aimed at a quick fix in a pre-election period.''



The Howard plan is selective, cynical and racist," Australian Greens leader Bob Brown said yesterday, saying the Howard government had neglected Aboriginal health and is only acting now in the lead-up to a national election.

Greens Leader Bob Brown in interview with the Taipei Times.
http://www.taipeitimes.com/News/world/archives/2007/06/23/2003366487

So 100 people 100 views
+ http://news.google.com.au/nwshp?ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&hl=en&tab=wn&ncl=1117219839
All the latest from google.

What do you think?

Konstantin

Yes..one of those most intense decisions John Howard has made. I think child sexual abuse definately needs addressing especially in some Aboriginal communities, though I think politicians and the media have to be careful about naming and shaming all Aboriginal communities, this is something that indeed has hurt and shamed a lot of Aboriginal Elders and leaders, that a branding stick has been waved over all who live in communties.

This is not the case, it was stated on a channel 7 news story that a man from the community first entered by troops and police that they are not monsters..we have to remeber this, only SOME are monsters.

The other issue I have is I think the government intervention has been tackled wrongly and is to extreme. I do not think its a case for the 'Army', really, who are they?? They are not trained in Child Protection and dealing with issues sensitively...why not have police, medical and Dept. Child Protection workers go in...this is their area of expertise and know the right way to go about this after lots of training and studying.
I guess what worries me, is this hard stance John Howard has taken is not thinking about the after effects or the 'healing' these victims and families of victims need in order to heal themselves and their communities.
What culturally appropriate support is to be given to those young children and families who find out someone has hurt their child.....the army does not know anything about this and realistically neither do the police...
Its this time where necessary intervention and support is needed before we find increased substance abuse, criminal behaviour and mental health issues as consequences of years of abuse and no or little understanding about emotions and fears, self blaming and low self esteem, physically damaged and mentally scarred.....these children and their communtities need more than just a police and troop presence and physical examinations....more specialist services in sexual abuse, child protection and mental health and domestic violence services are needed to work through the aftermath..before we lose more children to the 'revolving door' system that catches so many. As well as an increase in youth suicide in Aboriginal communities due to helplessness, lack of self worth and physical and mental challenges withinn their selves...How do we help these victims John Howard??

The biggest issue Aboriginal communities are facing in a lot of Western Australian remote areas and counrty towns is alcoholism and substance abuse....calls from women elders in Fitzroy Crossing in the Yamaji Region of WA has called for a ban on the hotels in town selling takeaway alcohol to locals they want a yr trial to give their people an opportunity for their bodies and minds to recover from drinking heavily and daily.
The West Australian Newspaper on Saturday reported a group had been arrested for smuggling 100 ltr's of alcohol and petrol into a remote 'dry' community as well as cannabis and amphetamines....this is shocking we are seeing this increasing trend in smuggling substances into Aboriginal Communities that have worked hard to remain dry and have a healthy way of life into this downward spiral infecting so many other non-dry communtities....when their own people open up and say they need change and need to put in place bans on liquor sales its time someone started listening...whats more important in the long run the profit they make of them or the lifelong health problems social problems and emotional scarring being self inflicting and ruining generation after generation....when will enough be enough??

i know im a bit behind on this thread but would like to comment anyway
i am aboriginal and live on the nth coast NSW i find this govt action as another injustice done to my people, if they were serviced and supported properly in the first place they would not be living this life of desolation. alcoholism is a viscious cycle many babies born with alcoholic feotal syndrome have very little hope of not becoming addicted.
in my community alcoholism and drugs are a major distructive force and with that comes violent and sexual abuse it has been discribed as third world conditions especially were health is concerned
we are living within modern society in the nambucca valley not in the desert our women young and older are sexually exploited in return for a dismal amount usually alcohol but we must not forget that this abuse is also perpertrated by others who are guilty of this, in NT the miners are alo abusing young girls and the same has been happening here since settlement.
it is very difficult to know what is the right approach to stop this tragic cycle howards way is definately wrong and very little funding reaches ground level

im involved with the aboriginal youth art centre, my town has been identified as among the poorest with the highest unemployment rate and we are struggling to get funding for this project we have art supplies and facillities which through the kindness of the owner is allowing us to stay there rent free we have produced many quality works and can justify our project but we cant get funding as yet

i can just imagine how difficult it would be for the desert people to get anything

this is the problem the funding is all kept within the beauracracy and none is getting to ones in need, there are some evil blackfellas who are also guilty of stealing from their people it happened to us thats why we are left with nothing and have to start from scratch again they stole from the children it is inexcusable
but we have some wonderful whitefellas around us they are even paying our power bill im sure with this kind support we will make it work for our community
cheers

hey fudge,

Yeh like you said, there is no answer but Howards way is certainly not improving relations between aboriginal people and the political party in power.

As for your youth art project - good for you! Thats awse that you have been able to gasin some success through donation and kindness, and it is indeed a shame not more funding is available for productive workshops and projects that are art and culture based. its a great opportunity to involve young people in something positive and expressive.

Art and music therapy as well as other alternative therapies are proving to be successful, relaxing and enjoyable in many areas such as: mental health and D&A abuse.

So you gotta ask why its so damn difficult to provide grants and funding to communities for these types of programs.

I guess I will soon find out shortly how I go gaining grants and funding for art therapy at my workplace.

Again, goodluck fudge its sounds like your doing a damn good job!

Aboriginal leaders and significant Aboriginal commentators have two very significant things up their sleeves: 1 - experience and knowledge of the past; 2 - vast intelligence that brings with it the ability to act now in a way that sets up for ten moves later on the chess board (usually several moves beyond white fellas).

It's about power, this initial process. Regardless of if the intervention is privately welcome or absolutely not welcome ... either way ... right off the bat Aboriginal leaders know full well the best thing to do is spit chips and use words like racism and apply wholesale blame, to call into the conversation past injustices and atrocities. Also to piggy back off the geographic spotlight where possible (certainly not to disparage the former poster in this thread who makes worthy comment, credit to you for your work).

What we are being told today by Aboriginal commentators in the media is part of a process, part of a political positioning for power to gain greater control over the situation and involvement in decision making.

Which is exactly what they should be doing in any case. IMO

My experience is respect the process, allow the playing field to be described, know that it's their place to put that ground down and as much as possible keep the game to the ground they lay. I learned this working for an Aboriginal Legal Service providing Social Work service to Aboriginal clients.

The big problem with this situation is pace. On the one hand speed is of the essence from what we know, but on a cultural side - things work better more slowly. Again... the process.

For now, I'm going with a lets see opinion on all this. My understanding for now - generally speaking, not discussing the specifics or fully knowing them my gut says it's a welcome move, simply because the opposition has been more process than real opposition from my understanding. The specifics of 'how' is probably going to be the issue and at the same time the space in which the process can unfold.

In terms of the shame... that's for each individual to consider. My role at the legal service was working with rapists and murderers but I put that shame on those individuals, and I put that shame on the white fellas they were locked up with for the same crimes. Shame is at the doorstep of individuals in my cultural upbringing... no one else.

The important stuff from now on is the 'how' and there are a lot of ways that can be stuffed up.

From my understanding the 'why' is squared away. This report that came out, in a just world, why action needs to be taken seems to be evident.

It's all about the how, my questions are about what we do now.

intervention needs to happen but not by the milatary, community service providers should have been sent and these services should have been in place a long time ago
jeez we cant even get services how are they

what i dont get is why they just make out that it just happens in remote desert communities when it is the same in the cities, suburbia and rural towns all over aus.

along our the coast NSW most blackfellas are on missions
intervention is needed here also
the drinking,violence,sexual abuse,prostitution,3rd world health conditions,minimal housing, many deaths caused by violence and alcohol, high crime and incarceration rate, etc etc etc

in our town the mish is at the back of town on the old dump site hidden away from the wider community and tourists.
aboriginal people have been sreaming loud for help for a long time
and not just the govt but the majority of the wider community hasn't heard them they dont realise they are there, in their own backyard, they think only those in the desert are living under these conditions.

we need to raise more awareness that the same conditions are experienced within the rich communities all over aus

our country is wealthy and prosperous there is no excuse for these third world conditions

where are all our profits going????? we know where they're not going !!!!!!!

Exactly my point its branding all remote aboriginal communities as a haven for sexual abuse...and true as it is...abuse happens anywhere the outback, the inner city, the house next door.

Where is our governments money going?? Good point..why is it important to spend millions even billions on things that are not a primary 'need' for the better of the australian people...why is a new bell tower or a revamp more important than funding new houses to state housing departments to help combat issues such as overcrowding, homelessness and priority clients fleeing domestic violence etc....surely these factors contribute to alcoholism and sexual abuse, having an overcrowded home or camp or community with no room for appropriate sleeping arrangements for children and women away from where prying eyes and hands could walk..allowing those vulnerable on our streets to feel safe and have warmth instead of putting their lives at risk everyday while they wait on 6 yr housing waiting lists......

I realise that things do need to be constructed etc by government but spending 20 mill on security for the lastest world leaders meet etc seems like such a waste for a few leaders such as bush when thousands of people on low incomes battle it out everyday just for a place to sleep and a feed no limo's and plush hotels....its just not fair....

If only...everyone thought for all the people rather than their own ridiculously extravagant lifestyles to sit on government and do sumthing worthwhile for their pay!

here's a thought, the govt is going to check every aboriginal child on the missions to see if they've been sexually abused. so what do u call that??

hi jimbob and all
sexual abuse is not the only issue this happens right across the board wether you are disadvantaged black blue or brindle if this is all they are concerned about they need to examine every child at school they are all at risk

it is operation - intervention this implicates that the communities are at fault
it should be operation assistance -improving and spending money that will provide higher living standards, access to services and jobs

our country is among the wealthiest in the world they have made this money from desecrating and raping aboriginal land and the people
it is time the wealthy gave back to the original inhabitants of the land

I believe one of the biggest problems with the Federal Government’s intervention in the outback is, despite the fact it’s about 11 years too late, that there’s not enough infrastructure to support it. If there’s no doctor willing to go to a community and no clinic to house the doctor, how’s the government going to provide healthcare there? And it’s because the community is in so much crisis, because the government has putting nothing into it for the past 11 years in office. Or making kids go to school, or their parents won’t get their welfare payment. How many of those communities would have schools for a start, and if they did would they be places you would want to send your kids? Because the government has given them no funding, so what are the parents supposed to send their kids to? They’re just election pawns, and now they think they can go in now and everything will be ok. Anything for a few votes I guess. I don’t agree with or trust anything the coalition does with our indigenous people, as it’s just such a change in the last two months before the election from doing nothing to doing everything. I believe we really need to do something about the situation for Aboriginal and Torres Strait Island people, but as far as the fed’s go it’s too little too late.

Sk8r girl.

So true...it was only on WIN news lastnite that there is such a lack of medical services in rural australia they were saying to be successful and improve rural and remote health services and access they would need sumthing like 6000 doctors, 600 midwives 400 nurses and 3000 specialists im going off the top of my head, still thats such a large large number needed to try and fill the gaps and grey areas between metro and rural Australia.

But intervention is all very well in the eyes of polititians but what about the treatment, follow up care and healing side of things....what staffing and resources are put into this equation.

It just gets me goat as the government know the statistics on mental health drug and alcohol abuse and imprisonment....abuse and trauma and the lack of follow up care and healing....is a HUGE contributing factor in these statistics...why doesnt the government think about the external social and emotional factors involved in this 'intervention process' what happens to the victims, families and communities in order to try to heal and to move on without falling into a life of possible destruction.

i was sickend by the news over christmas of a homeless man bashed in lismore by 6 aboriginal youths for no apparent reason than to steal his tobacco and the senseless death of the grandfather playing beach cricket who was set upon by 25 aboriginals in geraldton because he stopped them from stealing his beers.
these disgusting acts of violence have no excuses you cannot blame govt, society or whatever,there are many blackfellas who are disadvantaged and traumatised but they would never commit such crimes and are abhorred along with the wider community

from myself and my community we are truly sorry for the fella in lismore, they never said his name.....and we are indeed saddened for the family in geraldton who lost their father

there are many fine decent aboriginal parents and families who have overcome adversity and have respect for themselves and all aussies
but there is a generation of young adult men, women and youths who's lives have never been structured or controlled... they have been abused and neglected by their parents-NO-ONE ELSE, and they are fuelled by alcohol and drugs...they hold a great threat to their own people and the wider community.. they have not been shown respect so they do not give it, they are racist and jealous of others possessions...they believe they are owed by white society...this is the excuse they give as they choose to live there lives in an unsocialable manner for they steal from anyone...their mother-brother-father-uncle etc..they are violent towards each other and think they are above the law
i know the gov has a lot to answer for but so do the aboriginal parents who have neglected thier children in favour of drink-drugs and gambling. they don't care where the kids are as long as they are not bothering them
i don't care what you have been through a mother does not allow her children to suffer, you dont waste your money on yourself while your children need a feed and you dont get drunk when they need your protection to keep them safe... it is money given to them so their children will not want..then they curse the gov and whitefellas cos they have nothing. i totally blame their parents and the elders for allowing the degradation of the family structure and neglect and abuse of the youth ..we are now seeing a growth of crime and violence outside the communities ...this hatred and madness they hold is frightening...
they do not respect or uphold the whitefellas laws.... each aboriginal community should wake up and take control...put the lores back into place...maybe they will respect them as the punishment is far greater than a holiday in jail

none of the support or funding for services and facilities can fix this problem..the parents should be made accountable for their childrens welfare and the interventions should come from within the communities....the elders have ignored this problem for too long it is time they must stand up and and take a firm hand in controlling the abuse.
they cannot continue to blame white society for the injustices when its the parents that are denying the children a right to a safe and healthy life, while the families and elders watch the children suffer and do nothing but blame the whiteman and wait for him to fix it.
i pray for my people that they can once again find the respect they once had for their children, the land and especially for themselves
i pray for my people that once again the elders will stand strong and proud and take control.. with the return of social justice and tribal lore within their communities

Fudge, your reply here is excellent, thank you. I felt that I should reply here, but if I started, where could I possibly stop? The problems are so complex, so profound, and all around me were stupid politicians full of the simplistic idea that they could solve problems that have been three hundred years in the making with the wave of a document. Instant solutions, take control, these people are too stupid to look after themselves, Daddy John and Uncle Mal with make them be like the rest of us. They hadn't even done their homework on the basic causes of all the problems, let alone the deeper levels. :rolleyes:

The Australian people have been kept in the dark about most of it, especially things like the massacres that occurred. Genocide in Australia? Never! Like hell - OK, I have to stop - if I keep going I'll say things that people simply aren't ready (or prepared) to accept.

When we talk about these issues, it does no good to talk only about Aboriginal people. We must also talk about all the non-Indigenous people of this country, who provided the conditions that led to the current situation. Indigenous peoples have lived in this country for so long. They were living in and caring for this country while parts of it were still actively volcanic, while the fossils we know as Australian megafauna were living creatures, when the climate was completely different, and sea levels far below what they are today.

Since the initial invasion of this country in 1788. Whole communities have been wiped out. Schools still talk about stone age hunter gatherers, ignoring the complex interwoven societies that peopled this country for so long.

How many people know that the Ngarrindjeri people of South Australia had a political system similar to the Westminster system? A complex political system that divided the Ngarrindjeri nation into eighteen divisions, each with its own government, which also functioned as its high court and justice system. All the officials of these bodies were elected. There was then another body over all of this to deal with issues that affected the whole Ngarrindjeri nation. Life for these people was very political, and controlled by strict laws, and a justice system that could punish severely where necessary, but which also recognised and made allowance for a reasonable degree of human frailty. Their entire culture and lifestyle, was rich and complex.

This is just one example of what has been wiped out in this country, and the problems arising from the displacement and alienation that was caused are ongoing and definitely still with us. They will continue to appear, down the generations, until real efforts are made to address the basic issues, rather than the issues arising from those. It is hardly surprising that some members of some of these communities have become disaffected and out of control, and it is downright crass to highlight them while ignoring the value of the input into present-day Australian society by all the Indigenous people who have managed to keep their heads through all that has happened.

Well - since this thread was started John Howard and Mal Brough have been consigned to oblivion, which says something about the way the public felt about their efforts to solve the problem. Will the new government do any better? I hope that at least they will have the grace to acknowledge that there are Indigenous leaders in this country who can do a better job than any non-Indigenous person possibly could, and that the army would be better used elsewhere.

Somehow, sometime, we have to acknowledge the Indigenous peoples of this land for what they are, and what they were, and allow them to begin the real work of healing the disfunctional communities. Somehow, we have to find it in ourselves to stop meddling, acknowledge the past, and give Indigenous leaders the tools and the space they need to begin the process of healing.

Here in South Australia, where the disgraceful treatment of the Ngarrindjeri people over the Hindmarsh Island bridge took place, and where the community is still divided about the issues that were then raised, the local council , in their desire to heal the terrible situation that resulted, came up with this:

http://ngarrindjeri.tripod.com/pages/letters/sorrow_apology.html

Let's hope the new government of Australia can do something similar. I know they are only words, but it's a start - and they are better words than many we have heard.

sorry day at last
that was a very moving apology by our prime minister...he is indeed a genuine, caring and humble man...we was all crying...it was a great and proud moment for our elders especially and those who have suffered so long...
we all say sorry so readily to those who are hurting or who have lost a loved one...it is a word of compassion, understanding and acknowledgement....it helps heal the wounds...now the healing can truly begin
but Rudd went even further and admitted the wrongs of past governments that led to the seperation of a proud people from family, country and cultural heritage and the neglect and mismanagement of indigenous affairs by past governments and religious missionaries. it was an amazing apology
cheers

Hey fudge ^^ I have always wondered this but I don't know a great deal on the topic.

Has England ever appologised at all or made any kind of reconsiliation regarding colonising australia and the stolen generation or has it just been the Australian Government?

very good question joeru....i think that the english parliment has apologised but i don't know about the queen...i'll have to check that out...england should surely compensate and acknowledge their part in colonisation and declaring terris nullius....but it was the australian government and legislations that led to the removal of children and disconnection of cultural teachings.....
but i also think that the convicts who were used and terribly abused by their english rulers and governors....deserve an apology...it was on their sweat and blood as well as the blackfellas that this nation was built..they were also stolen from their families and taken from their homeland never to return.....slaves for the rich who sat back and never broke a sweat...profit in their false glory..
our history and governments have many unresolved issues that should be addressed...but i guess one step at a time is good
cheers

Im soooo glad that our govenrment has finally done the right thing and apologised on behalf of previous parliaments for the degradation and suffering, loss of family and identity and culture and family ties that was a result of the forced removal of those in the 'stolen generation'...

No apology or amount of money can 'heal' the wounds which our burnt in soo deep within ones soul and within a whole culture...but it is a stepping stone necessary for the country and world to acknowledge the inhumane policies that once were implemented in a racial and uneducated stance to 'get the black 'out of a generation of people who were and still our the original owners of this land.

I thought it was great past Prime Ministers were present such as Keating, Hawke and Whitlam....but John Howard proved once again how he is in no way willing to ever support or accept ''change'' for the better of the whole nation...this was typical, and a direct insult to his party and to the government as well as all Indigenous Australians.

As for the Liberal Leader Brendan Nelson I was surprised at his speach and support, this was all we ever wanted a united front in such a historical moment in Australias young history...I do think though the issues regarding sum of his comments was unnecessary such as the NT sexual abuse issues I do believe his somments regarding this were for the sole benefit of the protestors outside wanting the end of the NT Intervention, it was irrelevant to the official apology and a completely seperate issue, there was no justification back then for the removal of children just a harsh act of inhumanity.

What you guys think of the apology?

brendan nelsons speech did stab at the heart of aboriginal people and the aussies who care for them....but his comments should be ignored and not allowed to dampen the spirit of our nation that rose to great hights on sorry day....the majority of australia showed their disappointment and contempt for his comments....by turning their backs on him..... and this was a victory that we relish in...
cheers

a man was bashed at a petrol station by youths because sorry day incited them

the majority of australia get it and have shown their compassion...but there has been an emergence of racial attacks.. verbal and physical.....and i'm afraid it's among the younger generation that are openly showing their loathing for aborigines and disgust in saying sorry...fuelled by their parents and government ignorance... i would imagine

a few days ago my daughter-inlaws cousin was murdered by her boyfriend....i did not know her personally...but it is another tragedy that her family and the aboriginal community has to endure......this was a very sad day yet racist and cruel remarks were overheard regarding her death....and not being sorry...i wont state them exactly because they were so offensive and cold-hearted...

i am used to those who say stuff out of ignorance....but this is different.....these comments and attacks are done out of hatred..kkk style

they reckon blackfellas are primitive and will not assimilate into modern society...but who are the primates here...these violent and cruel acts mirror the colonial years...their thinking and understanding has not evolved in two hundred years...their eyes are blind and there ears are deaf....they have not come out of the dark ages

sorry to unload this...i just hope you all understand my frustration....

and I thought it was a step forward. It won't change anything, or do anything, but at least it has been said. It won't make lives change in the outback reserves, but the apology is now in writing. We apologise, we are sorry for what we and our ancestors, did.

The amount of pain we have put you Aboriginal/ Nunga/ Koori /Murri people through is almost unforgivable. I would not blame you if you could not forgive. I have some friends who were taken away, and I just can't imagine how tough that must have been.

thanks gremlin...much has changed within the pysche of the aboriginal people....sorry day has made us feel worthy again...it took away the shame and made us feel proud of our heritage we can now go forward...its the racist ones who'll be left behind...you can only feel sorry for them as they choose to live their lives shamefully and full of hatred....
thankgod that they are now the minority....the australian people have given us more than these fools could ever take away...their humbleness and kind words like yours....have given us back our pride and dignity..
the true healing can now begin
it is now time for aussies to also feel proud of this achievment...we have a nation filled wth compassion..and respect for one another...
from the harsh beginnings for both black and white this nation has grown into the most humane and peaceful society in the world......you have proved over and over your contempt for the sins of your forfathers....this burden you all carried with honour is now lifted....stand proud australia and thankyou
cheers