Life In Hell

It's been a while since I've posted, but I just feel like writing about what I think of my situation.

I'm on my way out of being homeless, but it seems like the process is just too slow.

When I say "Life in Hell", the hell I'm referring to is Jacksonville. I'm not originally from Jacksonville, I'm from New York and I want to go home very badly but right now this is where my source of income is.

I'm doing better now, and I've totally weened myself from the services of the mission. It took me a while to learn this but missions don't really help the homeless.

Why am I homeless? It's because I quit a stable job to search for something better. I was a long distance truck driver and I still don't regret quitting that job. While I did that job, I simply lived in the truck, but when I quit that wasn't an option. I'm homeless longer than I expected because between now and the time I quit I made a financial mistake and I didn't stay on focus.

That's not going to kill me, I know now what not to do.

Let me explain something, the solution to being homeless is something so simple it escapes the comprehension of "service providers". The solution is simply to make more money. It's that simple, but it's easier said than done.

I also don't drink and I don't use drugs. That is a difficult concept for service providers to comprehend.

I've said missions don't really help the homeless. The one in Jacksonville that I have the most experience with, requires you to go to chapel before you can eat or go to bed. They also have their 65 day program during in which the participants spend their entire time being in chapel and doing chores. They're not allowed to have money during this time.

I'm going to write something here that will be incredibly shocking to service providers. Sitting in chapel and listening to Baptist theology isn't going to do anything to cure a person's homelessness. The solution to homelessness for me is at the day labor shop. Right now I'm only partially homeless which and that's improvement.

Last month at this time I had lost my repeating work ticket at one day labor shop because I got sick and I only had $0.07 to my name. I needed to do something and rolling over and dying wasn't an option. (By rolling over and dying I mean joining the mission's 65 day program.)

I found a day labor shop that sends people to work based on the order they signed in on the list. (Most of them send people out to work based on the manager's favorites.) I forgot about having a bed and I started sleeping in line at the day labor shop. When I did that, I was always one of the first names on the list and since I've been doing that, I've been getting out to work five days a week and getting overtime pay and I'm not at the state's minimum wage any more.

This has improved my situation. I sleep at the day labor shop Sunday through Thursday nights, and that allows me to have enough money to get a hotel room all weekend. It also gives me enough money to purchase my own food.

I have a goal every week to carry a certain amount of money into the next week. This coming week I'll have enough saved to begin working on starting my own business. I'm working on an internet based business and when that starts to generate income, I'll still work at the day labor shop so I'll have an additional income source. The solution is to make more money, and that's what I'm doing.

Hi Johnny,

Keep at it. My family and I have been in our home for a year now, after almost two in I.M. Sulzbacher's. I'm holding down a job with full benefits, still blog (and am now getting paid to), and have kept Homeless In Jax (http://www.homelessinjax.com) running since the 2004 when my family first became homeless. I haven't announced it by putting up fliers yet, since downtown's Library refuses to allow posting on their bulletin board, but the site is now allowing anyone to post their own stories about the problems they have in Jacksonville while homeless.

KEEP AT IT! Do not listen twice to ANYONE telling you you're wasting your time.

Check out my site sometime.

Best,
John C

Hi Johnny, I'm a service provider and I'd appreciate if you would help me name and shame the service provider that:
"requires you to go to chapel before you can eat or go to bed"

Those services should have all and any government funding stripped from them and they should be shut down.

The USA is supposedly a free country and this is how they treat people who are poor, suffering and vulnerable? What they are doing is wrong. I'm a big fan of the US and A but the extremist Christian groups trying to take advantage of the powerless - that's fucked. I call bullshit when it happens in Australia, and I call bullshit in this situation.

I am all for naming and shaming religious predators who exploit people who are powerless and try to indoctrinate them into a fundamentalist (hang on where have we heard this before?... Taliban?).

Johnny you will meet a lot of ignorant and abusive people on your way out of homelessness. See them for what they are but keep on fighting and stick with it. It is worth it.

I know you will make it.

If you want to help me in the name and shame, when you reply to this post - there is a field above the post called 'Title:' put the organisation's name there, then detail in the 'Message:' section the religious requirements that go along with getting or are required before you actually get what you need.

By the way, I'm Christian, and a Social Worker, and a Christian enough to call bullshit and help shame these people and show them for the blood suckers they are...

Those services should have all and any government funding stripped from them and they should be shut down.

I am all for naming and shaming religious predators who exploit people who are powerless and try to indoctrinate them into a fundamentalist


I thought making the homeless go to chapel before they could eat or sleep was the norm in the U.S.

I can see more than one side to this issue. The two shelters in Jacksonville that I've used are Trinity Rescue Mission and City Rescue Mission. In the case of Trinity Rescue Mission, they don't receive government funds because they are operated by Trinity Baptist Church, which is a suburban megachurch.

Here are the requirements for Trinity Rescue Mission:

1. You must attend chapel before eating or sleeping.

2. If you miss chapel, you forfeit your bed.

3. If you fall asleep in chapel, you're banned from all of their services for thirty days.

4. If you have a bed Saturday night, you automatically keep the bed Sunday night only if you attend Sunday school, church, and evening chapel. If you miss one of those three, you lose your bed.

The requirements for City Rescue Mission aren't as strict. They require you to go to chapel before getting a bed. If you miss chapel, you also forfeit your bed. However, there is no requirement to attend chapel before you eat.

It does seem like they're using a situation to enforce their religious doctrine. Homeless people are the only group I know of that are required to listen to religious doctrine before receiving services.

Why is this? If there were a hurricane , tornado, or earthquake, I doubt if anyone would make those individuals sit through chapel for one hour before they were given bottled water and access to insurance claims agents.

In the US, we have freedom of religion, and that's a two way street. The rescue missions have a right to preach anything they please before they give you a meal or a bed. In the US we also have freedom of speech, and I'm going to use that to shine a light on their religious rules so people can make an informed decision before they get in line.

Homeless people also have freedom of religion. The homeless person has the right to accept or reject any part of or all of what the pastor has to say.

Homeless people have the right to be a Catholic, Lutheran, Baptist, Buddhist, Muslim, or Luciferian. Homeless people even have the right to believe what extraterrestrials from 82 Eridani b tell them about religion. (Some people do believe that last one, all kinds of people are on the streets.)

Remember this: They might provide the services, but that doesn't automatically make their theology correct. You might be homeless, but that doesn't automatically make your theology wrong.

Thanks Johnny ..

Dominic is correct in saying that these organisations need to be named and shamed.

The true way of Christianity is by invitation not by enticement or under duress.

I personally have encountered (fortunately few) individuals or on occasion churches that provide a service for the homeless and having got them to attend start to preach and force feed their doctrines down our ears.
That is not what Christianity is about and these people should be ashamed of themselves for they are not following the spirit of Christ. Needless to say, I've sent many of them away with a flea in their ears.

' .. If you cannot give with a good heart, then do not give at all .. '

These imposters are useing the unfortunate circumstances of an individual or indivivduals to enforce their particular beliefs, It's almost a form of ' Blackmail,' Jesus did not have ulterior motives .. so why should these people ?

Nowhere in the bible or any other religion that I know of are people ' PRESSGANGED ' into following something that they do not want to follow. Religions are not about conscripts, they are about free followers of a faith, whatever that faith might be, and no amount of preaching or theology can convert someone unless that someone is emotionally equipped and wants to follow.

I agree, totally...shame on them that in itself is not a christian act...and I have to agree with Dominic, home of the free is americas motto, but hey in the welfare industry this definately does not apply.
How can a person in crisis work through their issues and learn new skills to eventually live independantly and to break there cycles...going to chapel does not allow for any of this.. its just an opportunity to force ones religion onto a vulnerable and desperate group and only encourages people to be people they are not in order to get a bed for the night, theres no empowerment, no encouraging of the client to gain perspective and make decisions with the guidance of welfare workers...this is just an impossible situation that can only end with one showing up night after night to gain a bed by attending a religious service, forced upon them and to not have any hopes for the future.....This service should be named and shamed! Good on you, for sharing this with us.

Having read your post Magneta I would think it only fair of me to add that the majority of churches and church organisations that I have encountered play a tremendous role in working with homeless people.

Most of them lead by example, i.e ' We are Christians .. this is what we do.' They tend to offer their friendship and do not try to force feed anyone their beliefs, and I applaud them for doing it. These are the real welfare workers, not those 9 til 5 types employed by the state.

Reading your post it seems that you are representing the political agenda and trying to force feed homeless people into the political dic-tat or ideal, which is just as bad as feeding people from the ' Jesus jar.'

Peoples minds have got to be ready to want to move on, whether that is in a religious or philisophical sense. It is no good trying to push people down avenues that they are not prepared or not ready to go down. Or to discuss issues with you that they themselves are still struggling with.

If people have issues, then they must be given time to come to terms with those issues it is no good trying to force the pace for political convenience.

The churches have an essential role to play in the homeless sector by offering compassion at a time, and to those that need it. We cannot write off all the good work that they do for the few churches, or individuals within those churches, that are not performing in the true spirit.

Tom

I was quite hurt by your comments regarding me being a political pusher, I am no such person...
I think you may not have read my story right or I did not explain my comments right...
I was referring to the agency in jacksonville and other agencies that 'force' clients into church to recieve help..which does not allow for any 'choice' not any church based agency.

I am quite aware of all the good and decent agencies out there I have worked in some myself. And I know the amount of work they do with the homeless and disadvantaged sector.

So to make my point clearer I was not critising ALL christian agencies not by a long shot. And Im sorry if you felt that way.

Hi Magneta,

How can a person in crisis work through their issues and learn new skills to eventually live independantly and to break there cycles...going to chapel does not allow for any of this.. its just an opportunity to force ones religion onto a vulnerable and desperate group and only encourages people to be people they are not in order to get a bed for the night, theres no empowerment, no encouraging of the client to gain perspective and make decisions with the guidance of welfare workers...

Firstly, my comments were a generalisation and not aimed at you, based on my own personal experiences with welfare workers they tend to bully people into their philisophical requirements to satisfy their paymasters.

They want to dominate the entire proceedings and pay lip service only to what we have to say. They bulldoze their personallity onto the client with a .." I am superior, you are inferior ".. mentallity. Maybe they are not conscious of it, (although many of them certainly are) but all too often that is how it comes over to the client.They will endevour to dominate the conversation from the start, putting the client on the defensive and ill at ease with the situation.

I am a confidant to many homeless people, and non homeless people alike, these people will tell me things that they would not dream of telling a welfare worker. There is a definate ' them and us ' attitude that prevails. As a rule welfare workers move clients along at a pace that is unsuitable for the client, likened to a product on a moving assembly line. I've done my bit now it's up to someone else, Passing people on from one ' worker ' to another. Each worker with his or her own fancy title .. Case worker .. key worker .. benefits worker.. project worker .. e.t.c. It tends to represent a process and the client is being de-humanised by a uncaring machine like process in a factory for no other reason than to satisfy the political or / and the philisophical requirement.

The process is all too often riddled with incompetance, and the ' workers ' are sometimes unreliable and untrustworthy, often condescending and will try to pacify a client when he / she expresses frustratuion at the treatment being received,. Some even tell bare face lies when they cannot find an answer to a certain situation just to fob a client off and buy time for themselves. Frustration all around. I have known so many street people that have embarked voluntarily into the ' system ' only to throw the towel in a short time later because of all the frustrations incurred. The amount of paperwork involved is a major contributory factor to the frustrations, but that is not the only reason of course.

Again this is a generalisation and I realise that there are some welfare workers that have a genuine interest in what they do. I would also acknowledge that they could tell me about their side of the fence (some do) and it's not an easy job. But the present system that I have witnessed in London is creating frustrations for workers and clients alike, and creates little else in the way of real progress.

Most of the churches do not ask you for your name .. No pressure at all is applied. If a person wants to talk they are all to happy to talk with you, and it does not have to be about religion or religeous matters. I realise of course that there are two different objectives here between the organisations, but we [the homeless] are human beings like everyone else and we will tend to repel that which is non user friendly, and embrace that which is user friendly ... No one likes to be bullied, and it's counter productive.

Again I emphasise that my comments are never aimed at anyone personally. They are for the many that have come to the forums to learn, I tend to tell it like it is because it needs telling. If there is going to be improvements in giving homeless people a better deal in society then understanding them has got to be the first step, that in turn might produce better results in time.
Speak to many homeless people and they will tell you .. it's not the public that gives them grief, it's more the state run system that angers them. Certainly true in my neck of the woods.

Not to be taken personally Magneta .. :)

There has been more than one occasion where care workers have come at me with clenched fist in a raving anger .. Not because of my behaviour, but because of my outspokeness and polite manner. That problem is theirs, not mine.

I agree with what you are saying Tom. And thankyou for making me understand what it was you were saying and where it was coming from. Your right though, a lot of people work under 'high pressure' systems, where outcomes over ride time and rapport a lot of the time. And I see from one side its hard to balance personal and professional objectives with governed outcomes by governing organisation bodies...on another side it can become impossible sometimes to assist a client even a little if at all no matter how much time you have..
With my workplace we work specifically with Aboriginal homeless clients with chronic alcohol use and malnutrition and poverty, we are out of the city and its a very different experience to any place I have worked before. And for us the cultural needs differ greatly and it takes some time to build rapport with clients as they need to know you for some time and then learn via word of mouth that hey, they're alright, go see her.
So yes every govt, non for profit, charity based organisation has its own challenges and negatives and positives I spose.
But I did agree with your last statement, it is dfefinately the workers problem not yours, its up to them to keep their cool and remain unattached and objectibe at all times.

How about this case scenario .. ? This happened very recently, if nothing else it highlights some of the realities of street life as opposed to the theories.


A young woman aged about twenty five that can no longer live with her mother who she claims is ' mad.' ( her words not mine) With no alternative other than to leave home decides to come to London. I shall refer to this young lady as ' A.'

I meet with ' A' while I am on my way to a church that does a occasional free evening meal. She is sat in a doorway, and as I pass she very politely asks me if I know where she can eat. I explain that I am going for a meal and invite her to come along with me.

The first thing that I notice about her is that she is extremely well spoken, an upper class English accent and her manner likewise. We walk and talk and she explains why she had to take the decision to leave home.
This was her sixth night on London's streets, she had no sleeping bag or blanket and tells me that she feels the cold in the early hours of the morning.

You must be very frightened I commented, she gave no answer as I looked at her very tired yet pretty face waiting for a reply. Finally she nods accordingly. That's very natural I inform her, you would be a fool if you had said you were not.

' A ' tells me that she has been to one of the state run shelters and after a one hour in depth interview with a staff member she was allowed to stay in their night shelter, but for that night only. They will only allow people with ' issues ' to stay in the night shelter she tells me. I know the shelter that ' A' is talking about and I also know that she has been fobbed off, but I do not tell her that. I will when the time is right report this to the local authority they are the people that in the main finances this organisation. ' A ' is a young attractive frightened female that is in a very vulnerable situation. She has been given no advice from this organisation as to where she can get food, shelter or any other sort of help that she may require.
She also tells me that because of a mess up with her welfare benefits she was without any money. I explain that because of her situation she is entitled to a emergency welfare payment. No one told me that she replies, I tried begging money for food, I got a little.

There is a large crowd gathered outside the church where we are to eat, ' A ' is very apprehensive. As we talk one of the volunteer's that is just arriving spots me and comes over for a chat. Hello Tom she ses, I introduce her to ' A ' ... You will be alright with Tom the volunteer say's he will look after you, I will see you both inside.

' A ' demolishes the meal immediately, I've not eaten for a couple of days she tells me as if by way of explanation. I spotted the minister of the church, I've known him for a long time and I go and have a discreet word with him hoping he might be able to get a sleeping bag or blanket for ' A.' I can get her some appropriate assistance tomorrow I explain, but she needs something to keep her warm tonight. The minister say's he will see what he can do later when it's quieter.

' A ' is drinking a cup of coffee, when without any warning she is suddenly flooded with tears, on her feet and running to the door.
I follow at a reasonable distance to find that she has run into the empty church and she is sitting on a pew crying. As I stand by the door, the minister who has followed us down from the upstairs dining room gives me a concerned smile and goes and sits with her.

I go back upstairs to the dining room and have a cup of coffee, when I return to the church later I see ' A ' in deep discussion with the minister. He gives me the ' thumbs up ' and a smile, she does not see me, and I make my exit.

This is one of many church ministers that I know personally .. we have regular e-mail contact and I will chase this up soon to see what the outcome was.

There is an essential role for the church to play in the homeless community, left to the ' welfare workers ' people like ' A ' can sometimes fall foul to the political agenda. I hasten to add that she is not the only one that I have aided, others have been in a much more pityful state than ' A ' and the church is the final refuge for people in that position .. If only for some food and comfort. ' A ' had already told me in our conversation that she was a Christian, to which I replied that I was a Baptist.
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Update 21 / 09 / 07

I met with ' A ' by chance recently and she told me that the minister at the church not only got her a sleeping bag but arranged a safe sleeping place for her. he also arranged for her to meet with a welfare benefits advisor. She is a much happier person than when I first met her, and she told me that she is no longer suffering from a lack of sleep.
I cannot pretend that this is the end of ' A's ' problems but she is in a much better position now to be able to tackle them, and going by the reaction I got when we last met she will be doing that with a big smile.

that not only sucks, but it is not Christian behaviour. I'm an atheist, and I do have an issue with some church-based "missions' here in Aussieland, so tell them to read their bible again (I recommend the King James Version ,not the latest "Hip version*) and point out to you where Christian charity involves involuntary servitude! (excluding the killing bits,of course)