Two observations from me.

Hi,

I just posted in the new member forum in a topic about how the law affects homeless people. I want to post a new topic here because I don't want to hijack another thread.

Here are my thoughts on the police and the government. I am an ordained minister. Do not excuse the police by saying "they are just doing their job". It is better to obey God rather than men. Even if you don't believe in God, to say "They are just doing their job." is called the Nuremburg defense. After World War II, the Nazi war criminals told the war crimes tribunals that they were just doing their job. that defense wasn't acceptable. Moral standards need to be applied equally and justly, so an unacceptable defense for WWII German soldiers shouldn't be an acceptable defense for American police. If you believe in God, the model civil law is found in the Book of Deuteronomy. One of the precepts of this form of government is equal treatment regardless of the person's income. When a government deviates from these principles, it is in effect saying to God "We know better than you."

Also, when I went to Jacksonville to investigate my friend's claims, I attempted to get a bed at Trinity Rescue Mission. They do not allow people to line up for a bed until 3:00 pm. They have twenty-one beds available for overnight guests. This is the game they play. About 50 or 60 men are competing for 21 beds. They make them wait on the other side of a busy street until shortly before 3:00 pm. At about 2:54 pm, daily, a shelter volunteer waves to the men on the other side of the street, and there is a race across the busy street to get a position in line. I voiced my concern to the shelter staff, and their response was "We're not the Hilton."

Shame, Shame, Shame on Them! If you're homeless, and you know of any shelter that behaves this way, I ask the forum administrators to let you let the world know who they are by telling this forum who and where they are.

I Myself Only Stay In The Shelters During Extreme Conditions When I Am Desparate

Otherwise I Usually Camp Outside And When I Have The Cash I Stay At A Motel
I Find Most Shelters To Be A Hassle And Stressful

I Also Try To Avoid Ones Run By Religious Groups Not Because I Am An Atheist But They Are Doing It For The Wrong Reasons Usually To Get You In The Door Just To Preach To You And If You Dont Agree They Kick You To The Curb Thats Not Right "catholics Are The Worst For This" I Am A Lutheran By The Way But Have A Moral Issue With This Approach We Should Be Kind To All The Bible Says So

I Also Find If I Put My Mind To It I Can Scrape Up Enough Cash To Stay In Cheap Motels Half The Week But I Also Dont Have Expensive Habits Like Many Street People And Find What Little Cash I Come Across Better Used For My Well Being

My issue is that requiring a person to attend chapel prior to receiving a meal or a bed makes a mockery of the Word of God.

Thanks Thats Exactly The Point I Was Trying To Make It Is A Mockery Of God And The Word

'Dr. Matt' I agree entirely that:

requiring a person to attend chapel prior to receiving a meal or a bed makes a mockery of the Word of God.

But I understand that if a facility only has 20 beds, they can't take 120 people.

The intake process is the issue, from what I understand.

What has religion got to do with this situation?

Hi Dr. Matt,

Welcome to the forums, thanks for your posts. Wow you're an ordained Minister and a psychologist! I'm sure you will be a very worthy member of the forums. I read your other posts and you obviously have a great understanding of homelessness, I look foward to hearing more of your experiences and views on homeless issues.

Dr. Matt (and dumpsterdave too somewhat) we do have some policies around discussion of religion in the forums. I can see you're a new member and obviously aren't one to push your faith onto others or be prejudiced in your discussions, that's very clear and an asset to you, however we do ask that discussion of religion be restrained to the "Faith, Religion, Spirituality & Ministry (http://forums.homeless.org.au/forumdisplay.php?f=26)" thread. The discussion of religion in your posts above wasn't a huge part of the posts, and I can see Dominic the forum admin simply questioned the relevance of religion in the discussion, so I don't want to be escalating a minor issue, this is just a reminder of the forum policy as faith is very personal and I can see how some members of the forum could take offense at the comments regarding religion and God. But just a reminder.

But please keep posting throughout the forums, I agree with what you're saying about the shelter at Jacksonville. There are often reasons why you're not allowed to queue outside a service, I was moved on from sleeping outside a youth service once as they'd had people bashed there previously, so it wasn't safe, and when we were sniffing paint in the street the youth service is in they asked as to move away as to be considerate to businesses in the area. I can understand all of that, and had no problem moving away (ok sometimes I did when I was sniffing but that was the effect of paint). But obviously it's a different situation in Jacksonville, different service, you didn't mention anybody sniffing or sleeping and causing issues, but maybe they've had issues with violence etc, but still why just move that away to a place where people are removed from help if they need it? And I don't think they need to put people at risk (running across a main road!?) by asking them to wait away from the service, but maybe they have a good reason. Sounds like it would be good if they had a drop in service running to accomodate the needs of the homeless in the area, besides the need for a bed.

Take care,
Sk8r girl.

I Was In No Way Trying To Have A Religous Disscussion I Was Just Pointing Out How Hypocritical Some Religious Homeless Service Providers Are

Dont Get Me Wrong They Have Good Intent At Heart But Many Of Times I Seen These People Use Religion To Practically Just Short Of Shaming Us For Our Homeless Situation And Not All Homeless Are Drug And Alcohol Users Alot Of Us Are Just Plain Down On Our Luck Feel Ashamed Enough As It Is Without Being Preached To About It And They Hold The Meal And Bed Hostage Till You Listen To Them First

With All Due Respect Not All Church Charity Is Like This Many It Is Just A Plain Old Church Service Not Unlike Sunday Morning But Still Hippocritical

Allow me to clarify, please:

But I understand that if a facility only has 20 beds, they can't take 120 people.

The intake process is the issue, from what I understand.

What has religion got to do with this situation?

Religion has little to do with the issue. When I said "requiring a person to attend chapel prior to receiving a meal or a bed makes a mockery of the Word of God.", I was solely responding to Dumpster Dave's comment. That is my opinion as a minister. As a psychologist, and a human being, the issue was the intake process.

Some people who were close friends of mine had a problem, and as their friend, spiritual adviser, and counsel, I want to know what's going on. To do this, I passed my self off as being homeless to see first hand the homeless situation.

While I was in Florida, I tried shelters in Jacksonville, Tampa/Saint Petersburg, and Miami. If I was able to obtain a bed, I simply left the building at curfew so a real homeless person could take that bed.

The shelters that I observed were:
City Rescue Mission, Jacksonville
Trinity Rescue Mission, Jacksonville
Salvation Army/Red Shield Lodge, Tampa
Saint Vincent de Paul Society, Saint Petersburg
Miami City Mission, Miami
Miami Rescue Mission, Miami
Beckham Hall, Miami

Some of them I wasn't able to get in to see their services.

I found the people at the Saint Vincent de Paul Society in Saint Petersburg to be the most friendly. However, some of these shelters make the residents feel sub-human. As a human being, I find that offensive.

I'll explain it this way. A person owns his own home, owns his own car, and is self employed. He becomes homeless. Is he not the same person when he was homeless as when he owned his own home, car, and career? After all, he has the same DNA, the same fingerprints, and the same eye pattern as a homeless person as he did as an employed person with a home.

The fact is, at one time, everybody who is now homeless had a job and a home. They are still the same person being homeless as they used to be when they had the job and the house. Why should they be treated different now?